Wondering what you think of Diana's viewpoint here? https://soundcloud.com/kpfa-fm-94-1-berkeley/diana-johnstone-elites-create-mass-hysteria-to-put-french-neoliberal-macron-in-power
Donald
Ann, I'm just a guy who listens and reads in French most days, as does she, but what she is saying is above my pay grade on both counts.
That said, I think it's pretty clear that Macron was put up to running, there is no doubt that the neo liberals wanted their own Obama, Trudeau, symbolic package for the old policies.
As to the FN not being fascists, well, no-one says that. They are ultra right, with some neo fascists in their movement. They may be for national sovereignty and some good left ideas, but so were the Nazi's. The racism of that movement is pretty clear.
As to mass hysteria.
Well, I don't think so.
Ann
No one says their fascists?
I heard that everytime I herd this story reported and a friend of mine in France has been screaming at me that Le Pen and the FN are fascists every day.
Ann
Not sure what you mean by "above my pay grade."
Donald
I mean that my skills and expertise are not up to a social analysis of the Front National. I'm just a French speaking news junkie.
Ann
You're too modest. Everyone else here seems quite sure that she's a fascist and or "far right" even though many of her policies are not. I don't think the words "right" and "left" are descriptive anymore myself.
Ann
I listened to the archive of Mitch's Monday show last night and he was stuck on the labels but it was otherwise pretty interesting.
Donald
Well, that has been the hallmark of the extreme right in Europe from day one. The fascist movement is not really a full on capitalist one, it is mixed. I think people who see strong parallels with the left, especially the authoritarian left, have a point. a point.
the argument your guest to use that the FN is not fascists is the same one Liberation uses to say that they are.
But it is obvious that we are also in a post fascists post communist world and that even those who claim those labels, are not what they were any more than the tories are the same people who burned the white house.
Ann
Authoritarian is more descriptive. Le Pen does favor the return of mandatory minimum sentences and increased prison capacity, as have plenty of prominent liberal Dems like Jerry Brown and Bill Clinton.
Ann
Macron also favors increased prison capacity, though she's reported to want 40,000 more cells and he's reported to want 15,000.
Donald
Popularism is the word being thrown around. The implication is playing to the public needs and fears.
Ann
Populist?
That used to be a positive term, but yes it is being used with that negative connotation now.
But no one uses it on Hillary Clinton, despite her statement that she has a public and private persona.
Donald
The ability to move the masses isn't Hillary's main gig.
Do you know the 5 Star Movement in Italy? They blur the lines in a big way.
Ann
Never heard of them but I'll look it up.
The Wikipedia makes them sound pretty cool.
Donald
In certain ways they are.
Italy needs a renewed political cast in the way we do.
Ann
This is an example of the distortion re Le Pen. "She denied Vichy France’s complicity in the deportation of French Jews." (LA Times). What she actually said was that Vichy France was not the Republic, which was then in exile, which is the same thing Mitterand and De Gaulle said.
Donald
As I understand it, Fascist generally means the movement started in Italy, and adopted by the German National Socialists. To say Le Pen is not a fascist is technical. She is certainly part of that European nationalist far right that pushes many popular economics.
One of the sad facts of history is that many of the social reforms we leftist like, came from this period of their history. Hitler had a program that made sure Germans worked, could buy an affordable little car and have roads to drive it on. So, are the FN Nazis? No. Do they follow a line of national chauvinism and economic well being for the common people thinking close to that of the traditional fascists? Most would agree with that. Are they accused of both in an election year? It would be surprising if they did not.
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